Message 3111, Jun 22, 2001
Great snag MILEHIGH! Please send some photos for us to drool over!
Gato


Pictures of Col Davis' P-1A helmet updated to P-3 standard. © Milehigh
Click on thumbnails to see larger pictures.

Message 3109, Jun 22, 2001
By the way, MileHigh just acquired a truly beautiful and original Korean War vintage P-3 & MS22001 set [P-1A updated to P-3, Bluelight remark], identified through helmet art to the Commander of the 58th Fighter Bomber Group that flew F-84E & G Thunderjets (Col. Davis, by name). The eBayer who sold it listed it as a "Painted P-1A from commander of 58th FBW" and did not use the words "flight helmet" or "jet pilot" in the title, hence most of us missed this altogether using the eBay search engine routines. MileHigh say he was really sweating this one out and I can see why! It is simply a beautiful and well preserved set. What a great snag THAT was (that counts as the snag of the week, I think, at the very least!).
Cheers, DocBoink

Message 2521, May 27, 2001
Hello folks, Just had contact with eBayer 'dirtroadearl', who has been a frequent bidder for helmets on eBay (particularly for P-series helmets), but who has not up until now been part of our forum. 'dirtroadearl' is the eBay name used by Gerry Asher and Gerry seems to have acquired that strange old blue P-1 that 'ezentpinc' (Robert Ciz-Madia) was auctioning off last week [same pictures as in message #2048 above]. This was, if you will recall, an older blue colored P-1 that had at some time had a P-3 type visor installed, had had the original P-1 edge roll stitched up when the Type 1 leather mask tabs were removed and then the P-1A type tabs installed. There was much debate here on the forum as to whether the helmet was as "original" as Robert (ezentpinc) had stated, or whether it had been somewhat disingenuously 'restored'. The final consensus was that this was a highly modified original Type 1 helmet that had at some time undergone a P-1A and then P-3 upgrade, but subsequently undergone some weird (and probably incorrect) further modification (after being surplused out). Strangely, though, the helmet featured an old fashioned WWII type braided pigtail comcord and had a type PJ-054 type bright red connector on it's distal end.
In discussing this helmet with Gerry, he tells me that when he got the helmet, he found that it had been fitted with WWII type ANB-H-1 earphone elements and that strangely incongruous red plastic PL-054 type phone plug connector!
My conclusion, after hearing this from Gerry, who had examined it closely, is that someone had installed the ANB-H-1 earphone receivers and the obvious replacement plug on the helmet deliberately. However, whether mistakenly or deliberately, it is uncertain. It is also uncertain as to whether our friend 'ezentpinc' (Robert Cia-Madia) knew about this botched 'restoration' or whether it was done by someone else before he got it. I haven't had a chance to talk this over with Robert Cia-Madia, but that is the next step in attempting to resolve this mystery.
It will be remembered that Robert last June (2000) also auctioned off another old 'upgraded P-1' that had a white shell and which had also been TO'd to P-1A specs (eBay item # 355335040 Early USAF P1 Flight Helmet).
Cheers, Doc(Sherlock)Boink

Message 2124, May 6, 2001
Correction: A few messages ago, I referred to the headset in an early P-series helmet as being of HS-36 specification. I experienced momentary brain fade in thus stating it--more at a transitory cerebral power outage, since this IS California, after all--through allusion to a non-existent descriptor term. This was pointed out to me by a cohort and I wish to assure you that DocBoink isn't really making all this stuff up: it was REALLY an HS-33 headset! Thankew!
Cheers, DocBoink

Message 2096, May 4, 2001
If this is the metallic blue P-1, you are correct it ain't no P-1. The P series Technical orders are really specific on what constitutes a P-1, P-1A (and P-1B), P-3, P-4, P-4A, P4-B, MB-4. In fact, the TOs are quite unique in this regard: they clearly explain the changes to convert one helmet to the next. The Blue P-series helmet may have started life as a P-1, but the holes where the visor formerly reside, chin starap, and nape strap, indicate it was modified to at least P-3 standards. Unfortunately, regressing the helmet to a P-1 requires removing the chin and and nape strap and restoring the edgeroll (the P-1 edgeroll is quite unique). What makes a true P-1 so rare: most were modified in the field to P-1A or later variants. This helmet stopped being a P-1 about 40 years ago.
Cheers, Figmo

Message 2069, May 4, 2001
Absolutely, Bluelight! The seller is severely overstating things with his "100% original P-1" schtick. The red plastic terminal cover you mentioned is probably a replacement, as the originals were black; there have been a few of these bright red plugs sold on eBay recently (new and unused surplus).
The original P-1 had just this sort of earphone phone jack plug and cord set-up for its HS-36 [HS-33; see below] type headset, which was slightly modified in most cases when they added the microphone connector and its boot in the P-1A type TO upgrade (HS-38 and HS-38A type). However, I would be willing to bet that this is the original com cord, as it closely approximates that on my own P-1. The headsling label the seller cites is identical to that listed for the original P-1 helmet in TO 13.1.37 dated 15 Dec 28 (USAF PN 47D3185) , and OD colored cotton web was used in these field upgrades to P-1A specs.
The fact that the helmet has had a P-3 type visor installed at some time means that it may have been TO upgraded to P-3. Although the head sling spec on the "Type P-1" woven label is further evidence of this being an original (if upgraded) P-1, the leather crown piece attached to the sling (with US Air Force clearly visible on it) may have been added from a more recent assembly.
The blue helmet paint is questionable but it is just possible that it was added in or during the original use dates, as the pivot-pin plates were clearly placed on top of this paint (otherwise the outline of the plate would stand out on the blue color). All in all, I think it is a worthwhile item to go after for someone who wants a P-1 in their collection. God knows they are hard enough to find these days, TO upgraded or not. Too bad it isn't in its originally issued configuration, but it looks fairly close, all considered (if you exclude evidences of the obvious TO upgrades). The seller probably honestly does not know that the helmet has been upgraded, but at least he is correct about its being a Type 1 Flying Helmet.
Cheers, DocBoink.

Message 2064, May 3, 2001
Hello Bluelight and Doc Boink
It follows the TO that I have, for a P-1 to P-1A upgrade, almost exactly.
Bones

Message 2063, May 3, 2001
Hi DocBoink,
So that is what it is! The stitching fooled me immediately and I had pictures in my mind of a young guy driving go-carts or hot-rods, meticulously reparing his beat-up old helmet because he couldn't afford to buy a new one.
Another reason for my doubts was the holes from the visor pivot-pin plates, evidence that the helmet had been used at least in a P-3 configuration at some point. It has not probably never been TO upgraded to P-4 as there are no tell-tale holes from the headphone spring mount on the side of the helmet.
Yet another feature which made my eyes flinch was the red plug. Could that be original? The colour alone made me doubt but also it looks very small compared to later U-93A/U plugs.
And then of course the blue colour and the OD chin and nape straps, as you pointed out. None of these could in my limited experience be described as "original" if that word is taken to describe "as the helmet left the factory". On the other hand they may very well be "authentic" in the meaning "modified in the field by USAF life support technicians".
All in all it seems that I might have passed hasty judgement on this particular seller (for which I humbly apologize). However, I still think that using the term "100% original and authentic" is an over-interpretation as the helmet has been changed back and forth over time.
Cheers, Bluelight

Message 2059, May 3, 2001
Hi Bluelight,
I too spotted this helmet today, while web browsing at another location, and was going to comment on it at home this evening, since it is a very interesting item for several reasons. My first inclination, on glancing it over, was to think it was just another trashed out P-1A that might have been altered by someone to "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear", as the old American adage puts it.
The blue paint is hardly original, as the seller claims, but this is clearly and unmistakably--believe it or not--a real 'Flying Helmet, Pilot's Protective, Type 1' (in other words, an original--though upgraded--early and rare P-1). Notice the strange "stitching" marks on both sides of the face, outboard of the twin leather mask suspension tabs? This stitched-up suture is where the original black P-1 tabs protruded, as per the P-1 specification and construction mandates. On this particular specimen of the P-1, the original black tabs were removed, the slit orifices of the edgeroll stitched together, and new natural leather P-1A type tabs were installed in the manner of P-1A type helmets. Further, there is a rubber boot covered mic connection installed on the right side, as in later P-1A series helmets.
The edge roll is black, not light tan, another important indication that this is an upgraded original P-1 helmet; additional evidence is provided by the OD colored nape strap and chin strap that have been added to the shell.
The explanation that all of this suggests to me immediately is that this is a genuine P-1 specimen that has been upgraded to the later P-1A specification. As such, it is a worthwhile acquisition for anyone who wants to acquire one of these rare P-1 types. It is a pity that the shell has been upgraded to P-1A specs, but the helmet is still a very legitimate acquisition--even in its modified P-1A guise. That's a yukky shade of blue paint on it, but only closer inspection would tell whether it is "period-added" or a recent paint-job (I am personally inclined to think it is period-added).
Apparently this suture stitching on the edgeroll of a P-series helmet was a common method of closing the edgeroll where the original mask suspension tabs protruded, when a P-1 was upgraded to P-1A TO specs. I have seen only one old P-1 previously appear like this on eBay, with the same curious feature, but at that time I hadn't a clue as to how to explain this suture feature; what a shock it was to finally deduce that this was clear (and apparently standard TO) evidence of a P-1 upgrade! And I had passed up that original P-1 for that very reason (uncertainty as to what it was). Anyone interested in an original (albeit TO upgraded to P-1A specs) Type 1 Flying Helmet?
Cheers, DocBoink