Message 3221, Jun 26, 2001
Ho Maggot, Absolutely fascinating discoveries on those shells. If I am not mistaken, the original P-1 helmet had only a winged star roundel (no lettering under it). The lettering was added later and various reports have seen "Air Forces", "Army Air Forces", "US Air Forces", and finally "US Air Force" added to the original round winged-star design,. as discrete add-ons. The last two sets of lettering were finally integrated with the winged-star decal as one unit. It is certainly good that you had the presence of mind to photodocument those findings. This is indeed a great example of "flightgear archaeology at work. I haven't any time to comment at length on this matter this evening, but hopefully tomorrow will find me with more time to reflect on these and similar subjects. Thanks very much for sharing this with us for general discussion.
Cheers, DocBoink

Message 3208, Jun 25, 2001
Sorry about that - the helmet that had shown up on eBay with the monochrome "U.S. AIR FORCE" decal on the left aft quadrant had a 9th Tac Recon Squadron emblem - not 12th, as previously stated.
Maggot

Message 3207, Jun 25, 2001
Some years ago, when my youngest brother and I were both neck-deep in helmets (he's now in his second year of seminary to become a priest), he acquired a pile of P-shells which he subsequently restored and made a boatload of money (which he stashed for his seminary tuition - I always admired his ability to not get too attached to these things, while I have done quite the opposite). At any rate, in the midst of one of the sanding jobs (an early P-1, black edge roll & all), a decal popped up - and with a shade more sanding, a decal below that. It was the first time we had run across the yellow-winged "U.S. AIR FORCES" decal (since popping up on several eBay auctions by Robert Ciz-Madia, eBay user ID ezentpic@aol.com ) - but what we have never seen before (or since, in my perosnal experience) was the decal beneath - a gold-winged device with "AIR FORCES" as a separate decal. As neophyte restoration specialists, we failed to document any paper tags which may have remained in the helmet shell (in the words of the great Homer [Simpson], "D'Oh!"). Another that came up was the monochrome "U.S. AIR FORCE" decal with the spec number as part of the decal - there was a helmet which turned up on eBay some months ago with this decal in the P-4A/B position(?) and a 12th Tac Recon Squadron emblem (black diving ragged-looking hawk silhouette against a yellow background) on the nape of the shell. DocBoink (or anyone else), any thoughts on this one? Was the monochrome decal specific to only one vendor's helmets (i.e. Switlik, Lite, Selby, Gentex, Consolidated Controls, etc.)? Waiting with baited breath for some word from the mountaintop, Maggot

Message 3105, Jun 22, 2001
Thanks for the kudos - I use plain old spray cans (Krylon or DupliColor); the lightning bolts were masked with 3M fine line tape (about $7 per roll). Once they're cured out, I hit them with fine sandpaper and then polish with Novus #2 plastic polish. As far as the sheen goes (gloss vs. satin vs. flat), the shells both appeared to have a clear coat over the paint job - they showed definite signs of having been done professionally (possibly sent out locally to a commercial shop for squadron paint) - the lightning bolts were applied identically to both helmets, right down to being off-center a bit to the right side of the helmets (when worn).
Maggot

Message 3092, Jun 22, 2001
Hi Maggot, Very interesting pair of helmets, indeed, and a beautiful restoration job, too. I have seen a photo of a helmet with a similar design of lightning bolts, only they were light on a dark background (B&W photo) but I have no clue about unit.
How do you paint your helmets? Are you using a modeller's airbrush? I am contemplating buying a Badger airbrush for this purpose but I do not know which model and size I should go for.
The finish of your restored helmet looks very glossy to me. Maybe it is just because I am used to looking at old helmets but I would have thought that something a bit more silky or flat would have been more authentic. Does anyone have any ideas on this topic?
Cheers, Bluelight

Message 3081, Jun 21, 2001
Over the past couple of years, I have picked up P-helmet shells from a number of eBay sellers, one of whom is Peter Schubert (eBay user ID "cerberus8"). By the way, the one he has currently running on eBay is one of the last of a batch he'd gotten from some long-forgotten dealer, which makes the following sleuthing all the more difficult.
There was a particularly nasty one I decided to tackle - looked like it had gotten its yellow paint application with a broom, the pins had been sawed off the visor hinges - but the avionics and chin & nape were still present. Anyway, I started to sand the pain off - found a similarly applied coat of white paint, then started getting dizzy - under the white I found a gorgeous red shell with big black lightning bolts down either side! Needless to say I stopped sanding there - I drilled off the damaged visor mounts and found the red paint underneath them - meaning the shell had gotten its paint job before the visor was installed. I wanted to duplicate the paint scheme as closely as possible, so once the finish was sanded smooth, I masked off the lightning bolts so the could be repainted in the exact same place, and proceeded with the restoration.
I'd nearly finished the paint job when I decided to tackle the next shell in line - another one I'd gotten from Peter, a nasty, dirty white coat of paint to be sanded on this one... started sanding and darned if I didn't find another red helmet with black lightning bolts!!!
Wanting desperately to ID the unit, I contacted Peter to see if he recalled where he'd gotten these - only to find out he had no clue beyond some "collector who sold a batch to him (or words to that effect)." He himself is in western Pennsylvania (I forget exactly where), so I have no clue where they may have come from - an ANG unit within a 200-mile radius? I'm shooting in the dark here...
I just thought I'd share these sorta "before & after" images with the gang - the unrestored shell is the one currently "unwarping" in my attic. In retrospect, I wouldn't have put the visor mounts back on the restored one, as I don't have an early style -2 visor frame to fit it (it's also a little warped circumferentially, and putting a visor frame makes it MUCH more noticeable).
Maggot

Press thumbnails for larger pictures. © Maggot

Message 3023, Jun 19, 2001
The Speedy-Rivets came from the "Sailrite" Company, a sailboat supply house that sells marine hardware for sailing vessels. Their website URL is www.sailrite.com . You can get the Speedy-Rivets in small lots of 10 complete sets (male & female halves) or in larger lots of 100. Used their search engine on the site for SPEEDY-RIVET.
Cheers, DocBoink

Message 3022, Jun 19, 2001
Gato, PS: The Sailrite item to ask for # is 018TEN, containing 10 complete sets of SPEEDY-RIVETS, priced at $4.50 per package of (10). Their phone # is (219) 244-6715 and they are located in Coilumbia City, Indiana.
Cheers, DocBoink

Message 3010, Jun 18, 2001
Hi Maggot and all, For the cotton web strapping, has anyone checked out any yardage or upholstery stores for these? I have seen belt lining web straps that look very similar to the P-x harness straps. Just a suggestion. I may check this out myself, for restoration of a P-3, and report to the group.
Doc, where did you find the rivet replacements?
Gato

Message 2992, Jun 17, 2001
Hi Maggot, That IS happy news and promises that the Gordian Knot may be capable of being untied, after all. I'll wait to hear what the final outcome of this is. Unwarping an early P-helmet shell successfully must rank up there with other known or suspected impossibilities (such as winning the Irish Sweepstakes).
Cheers, DocBoink

Message 2991, Jun 17, 2001
I have a P-1/P-3 shell sitting in my Texas summer attic as we speak, trying to unwarp the left ear (a bit caved in) using pressure (have the shell stretched over a small pail) and heat (the attic ought to reach close to 120 degrees without too much trouble). I plan to leave it up there a few days, checking periodically to make sure it doesn't turn into a molten blob... My brother managed to unwarp a similar shell. We'll see what kind of luck I have. If it works, prepare to ship your warped P-shells to Texas ;-)
Maggot

Message 2985, Jun 17, 2001
Bluelight, Your assessment of this shell is spot-on and probably more important than the obvious crack id the severe distortion of the phenolic resin & canvas duck fabric shell itself. To the best of my knowledge, such severe distortions of an early shell made using this form of heat & pressure molded, resin-impregnated fabric may not be corrected (reshaped to proper conformation). Does anyone have any experience with this? I have a shell that had this type of distortion, although not as bad, and nothing I tried would correct the distortion. Among the techniques I tried were moist heat (steam) and physical pressure (using a jig and clamps), and long-term stretching. This resulted only in the formation of a small, crack in the edge of the shell, due to overflexing.
Thus my own experiences have resulted in no practical "save" for a helmet shell of this type, thus disfigured. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has successfully been able to reform a shell like this, using any technique available (my feeling is that it simply cannot be done, using tools and techniques available in one's own 'shop').
Thanks for this information, Bluelight, and I agree that a $99 starting bid is ludicrous for this item, although the early P-1 comcords and wiring looms have been known to bring as much as $75 per specimen, sold discretely.
Cheers, DocBoink
----- Original Message -----
From: hartov@o... June 17, 2001
> Hi all,
> Just in case you haven't noted it, the P-1B shell that is offered
> (for $99.00!) on eBay has a crack on the left side from the position
> where the visor plate used to be to the edge beading.
> As far as I can see this helmet is only worth buying in order to
> cannibalize the comm cord and the microphone plug cover, but you have
> to be hungry to buy it at $99 or above, I guess.
> Cheers, Bluelight

Message 2915, Jun 15, 2001
Howdy Gentlemen, for those who are trying to find the original "Speedy-Rivet" type fasteners with which to attach the leather oxygen mask tabs to a P-series helmet shell, I have found a source for these. They are cheap (a package of 10, containing both male and female halves of the press together rivet assembly costs only US$ 4.50) and may be purchased from the Sailrite Company, 305 W. VanBuren St., Columbia City, Indiana 46725. Their website is www.sailrite.com and email address is sailrite@sailrite.com . It is ironic that these original P-series type helmet components are today so rare that one has to obtain them from a sail-boat outfitter, but they apparently still use them to fit attachments to sails (fortunately!). Ask for "item # 018TEN, Speedy Rivets (2 parts), 10 pack". these are about as close to the original spec Speedy-Rivet as I have been able to find, unless someone has a line on the exact replacement Speedy-Rivet. Anyone have another source for these Speedy-Rivets?
Cheers, DocBoink